Clark Gable reading.
This map put together by political scientists for Congressional Quarterly indicates the religiosity of various US states. You can see a full discussion of it at The Monkey Cage. In even the least religious states, more than 50% of the respondents said religion was an important part of their life. What I wonder is why the US continues to exhibit such religiosity? Other than Islamic nations, such religious fervor is mostly absent in other nations. What would your explanation be? Has success made us religious? Or is it part of our heritage more than in other countries?
21 comments:
Yep, the Bible Belt is still the Bible Belt. That's where I grew up.
I don't know why the US is still strongly religious. It's the way folks are brought up, but I don't know why they should be brought up that way. Maybe it's a legacy of the early immigrants, who often fled religious persecution because of their own religions.
The religious fervor here in North Carolina doesn't bother me as much as intolerance for other religions. One of the reasons people came to this country was because of intolerance of others. People seem to have forgotten that and want to ban anything that doesn't follow their own line.
The one thing I object to is folks' insistence on inflicting their viewpoint on you, but will not listen to any of your ideas. It's the one thing that turned me away from organized religion.
My mother constantly worries about me, but I've told her I can't go to church and pretend to be something I'm not. To me that's worse than the alternative.
The most successful churces in Michigan are the new megachurches, which I don't fully understand. One of the biggest Obama supporters I know goes to one. Yet I know in general they support right-wing causes.
I grew up in religious schools but lost my faith during Viet Nam. I was glad my mother took hers with her. It provided some comfort in the end.
Interesting question, Patti. No ideas from me, that's for sure.
I grew up in Quebec, a province that was 80% french-catholic and until the 60's very religious. Priests were involved in every aspect of people's lives, keeping them out of unions and dictating which party to vote for.
We call what happened the 'Quiet Revolution' I guess because no guns were fired, but the change in Quebec when people simply stopped going to church was amazing. The most obvious change was the drop in the number of kids each family had. 10-12 kids was normal and then suddenly 1-2 kids was all families had. Before the quiet revolution there were two small french universities that taught mostly philosophy and a little medicine - no business, almost no science or arts. That changed as well and now french Quebec looks an awful lot like English Canada (for better or worse ;)
But why did people suddenly stop listening to their priests? It seemed to happen so fast.
I suppose it could happen in the US, those mega-churches could get turned into condos the way many big catholic churches in Montreal have, but it seems like religion is on the increase in the US.
Religion is making a bit of a comeback in Quebec, but only in a spiritual way and not in any political way.
I think Canada is following the European trend. When we lived in Amsterdam is was hard to find a church that hadn't been converted to something else. But Americans seem to tie religion to their "success" or future "success" or the nation's "success."
I find it interesting whenever i hear people write or talk about religious people (i think they mean Christian) being intolerant. I find the opposite to be true. I live in the south and all the Christians i know are loving and very tolerant and accepting of people with no faith or a different faith. I have circles of friends who are Christian and non Christian, and i find the non-believers are actually more rigid in their views and more inclined to hold stereotypic views of other groups. I think what happens is non believers hear Tele-Evangelists raving about this or that, and associate what they hear with all Christians. Those Evangelists may have certain followers, but they hardly represent mainstream believers. Rather, these believers follow the teachings of Christ who preached tolerance and acceptance. On to the original question: I heard of recent figures that say church membership in the US is on the decline.
That's a good point, Frank. A lot of people in the college community for instance assume anyone with religious leanings is not very smart or is a racist or something negative. Whereas it is sometimes they who are the most negative.
I think the decline is with the traditional churches where people don't seem to find what they are looking for--maybe community more than anything.
When I spoke of intolerance, I was talking from experience. The church I grew up in has some good folks, but a lot of people who have their own views and won't listen to anyone else. Unfortunately, they control the church.
We had a young minister once who left after one year. In his last address, he was quite frank. "This church is dying," he told the congregation. The older members dominated, closing off board positions and decision making over church funds to anyone under forty. The young people were leaving, either to other churches or dropping religion altogether. Some even said the minister was too young to be a preacher(he was thirty-two).
He said while attending school an adviser told him he could be one of two kinds of ministers. One, the type who listened to the church members, in which case he would serve a large number of churches in his career, or two, he could be the kind that served the deacons, in which case he would have one church his entire career." That was his closing statement as he left.
The church has had a fair amount of turnover in the years since. They have a good man there now. I don't expect him to last long.
Oh, that's sad. The one church I have experience with had two younger ministers--too liberal for some of the congregation and an older minister quite conservative but a nice man.The ministers and the congregation were constantly at odds. So they threw all three out and started over. The same configuration occured. This is an Episcopalian Church which seems to attract liberals and you have to wonder why conservative church members don't move over to another sect.
Randy, the experience that you shared is indeed sad and points out quite a negative example of Christian community. The group you describe appears to be a congregation out of tune. From the Christian perspective, the purpose of "church" is two fold: worship and fellowship. In fellowship, people are suppose to support each other and help hold each other accountable. All this is to be done in a loving manner. And it works. But does it work all the time? No. The problem, as seen in your example, is when people put self above others. And there in lies the problem that affects all of society, whether Christian, another religion, or non believer. The center of the Gospel is love your neighbor as yourself. Tough to do all the time. People fall short.
Frank-I wish I could find a church like the one you describe. It sounds...heavenly.
What is your "one book per author" rule? I spoke with Ruth Rendell at a Bouchercon in Philadelphia. She told me her favorite writer was Henry James. I generally stay away from discussions about religion. However, I suspect many of these surveys "proving" how Americans are so religious are flawed by respondents telling the interviewers what they think they want to hear. Some people want freedom from religion.
At my advanced age (61), I have limited myself to one book per author from now on. With my onerous list of book group books to read (stuff like Infidel and Persepolis), one long tome a month, I only have time for 3-4 additional books each month. If I read more than one book per author, what chance have I for sampling all of them? Luckily I read all many of them years ago. I favor dead writers who can't add to their list.
It's so funny that my Friday Forgotten Book this week is The Religion of the Founding Fathers. Interestingly, most of them were Deists.
A very sensible theology.
I wonder what the split in Michigan is between the yoopers and the trolls.... and the rural v. urban v. suburban populations in various states are? I think the reason that religion is such a big deal is that is so intertwined with out history and development as a nation. I also wonder was a map that asked if you were; very religious, moderately religious, slightly religious or non- religious would look like.
Be interesting if the Civil War had permanently split the country in two. The North would have more in common with Canada than it would with the South, I'd bet.
The most religious area of Michigan would be the western part of the lower peninsula. The UP is another country. I've never even been there.
This Pew Report from 2007 shows the trends: http://religions.pewforum.org/reports. The mega-churches tend to be evangelical in nature and I think over the last 20 years or so the combination of the growth of those types of churches and their political activism and the emergence of a religious right have put religion much further into the spotlight. The fact that the more politicized of these groups have chosen to champion divisive political issues like abortion, gay marriage and introducing creationism and prayer into public schools has resulted in what I think is perhaps a skewed perception of what most Christians are like. (BTW, I was raised in the Episcopal church too but now consider myself agnostic).
I think the mega churches are appealing to a lot of people who no longer feel a sense of community. Populations are much more transient and where I'd still feel at home in the church of my childhood because of the ritual and tradition (not because of the belief), I wouldn't feel comfortable in another Episcopal church.
I should also add that I grew up in a dying church in an anti-Christian college town, and in my time as a member I did see the very anti-Christian bias of the PRoAA….. The church my family attended was fairly liberal at times, and had ministers who were about being as open and nurturing as they could be… but in the last couple of years they have drifted towards affluence theology and the kind of ‘just like your grandparents had’ churching that I find so confining. My family in general is very religious, there are/were ministers on both sides of the family (including on grandfather), my parents met at church, and both attended Christian colleges…. But I don’t find what every it was that my parents and grandparents did in religion, and as a 30 something I find my peers seem to have the same point of view…. On the other hand, it might also be just as with so many other social institution that the baby boomers haven’t allowed the institution to change for the successive generations.
Patti... the west side is the most religious side, it's the if your not dutch (reformed that is) you're not much. I think it also has the most churchs per capita of any part of the USA... you've never been to the UP?? it's an amazing place, it's like the 50s never ended.
I've been as far north as St. Ignace but that's not typical UP, I guess. Since we came here from the east coast, we went back to the Philly for every vacation for 25 years. And after that, we went west or south.
Yeah, Dutch Reformed. I went to a Christian high school and college (Gordon). Fundamentalist, in fact. I have drifted.
That's a good point, Lisa--the church I feel most comfortable in is more about politics than religion, I think.
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