Patricia Abbott (pattinase): How Do You Solve a Problem Like the Clintons?

Tuesday, June 10, 2008

How Do You Solve a Problem Like the Clintons?

Or how does Barak Obama solve it? How does he utilize the Clintons and their huge base against McCain without the two of them overpowering his candidacy? There's never been a similar instance—a presidential campaign where the candidate has to calculate how to effectively deal with both his recent rival and her powerful husband. Should Obama follow Lyndon Johnson’s advice about keeping your critics inside the tent peeing out rather than outside the tent peeing in? Where would you position them? Does acknowledging their strengths lessen his?

27 comments:

Todd Mason said...: Well, as you know, I don't think so. Presidents can do what they want with VPs, as every VP comes to learn, and unless like the FratBoy in Chief you want your Veep running the show, they don't have much to do other than Stand By, break ties in the Senate and, if they choose to play ball, help on the Hill. Given, again, the near-identity of Obama's and HRC's agendas and approaches, this probably would work well. Bill Clinton might be his wife's most trusted advisor, but he'll be about as dangerous to the Obama Admin as Tipper Gore was to his.; 10:35 PM
Lisa said...: He's got to use them...no doubt about it in my mind.; 3:14 AM
Sam said...: I think the idea of proposing the next free supreme court justice slot to Hilary was an excellent idea. She's a lawyer, has lots of experience, and we need to slant that court more to the left.; 6:03 AM
pattinase (abbott) said...: I think she's make an outstanding SC justice as long as she can get through the Senate confirmation hearing, which I think she should be able to.; 8:00 AM
Terrie Farley Moran said...: Patti,

I don't think the Clinton's have a huge base.

In this past primary season, a lot of the party regulars followed along whatever their local organization did. The organization leaders made an early, safe bet on Senator Clinton. It just wasn't the right bet. Party leaders are scrambling to get in the Obama line, and their loyalists will follow. That organization vote is always a large part of primary turnout.

Women who followed Senator Clinton out of a misguided sense of feminist loyalty to a woman who is far from the feminist ideal, will take a deep breath
and recognize their values are closer to Obama than the other guy.

And a certain percent of Clinton voters will never vote for Obama under any circumstances.

It's not one huge base. It's a couple of different subsets.

Certainly, Obama brings the Cintons into the tent but he never lets them out unchaperoned.

Just my opinion.

Terrie; 10:08 AM
pattinase (abbott) said...: A cagey answer, Terrie. I'm less worried about Hillary than Bill. He seems to be suffering from some malady, perhaps related to his heart surgery.; 10:22 AM
Terrie Farley Moran said...: Patti,

It's not a malady. He's always been a spoiled brat whenever he doesn't get his way, and now he shows that side of himself very regularly rather then the occasional glimpses we used to get when he was President.

This is the real Bill Clinton.

Terrie; 11:28 AM
Josephine Damian said...: Sam: I heard that too, but Hillary is 60. The pundits said Obama will pick much younger SS candidates so that his legacy re: the SS will last long past his presidency.

I'd love for Hill and John Edwards team up on health care reform. I think Bill and Bush 1 need to go back to their roles as fundraisers for natural disasters.

Yesterday, I heard little Chelsea might get into politics!

*gulp*

Will we ever see the end of these Clintons?

Jeesh!

But I would not mind seeing more of George P. Bush.... Jeb's son... he's smokin' hot! If only he took up modeling instead of politics....

Oh well.

Chris Dodd for VP!
Chris Dodd for VP!
Chris Dodd for VP!; 12:43 PM
Josephine Damian said...: Terrie: I'm with you on Bill. His "malady" goes all the way back to his Guv days in AK. He's always had trouble controlling himself - in so very many ways.; 12:45 PM
Todd Mason said...: I'm glad to see the emerging consensus on Bill Clinton.

Patti and Sam, why do you think that Hillary Clinton would be even as good as O'Connor or White on the Court? Of course, almost anyone would tilt the current court centerward.

Jim Webb is pretty clearly the leading candidate for Dem Veep, if HRC can't make the case. Which does encourage McCain to name a woman.; 1:18 PM
pattinase (abbott) said...: I can't imagine McCain choosing a woman. I'd fall over.; 4:13 PM
pattinase (abbott) said...: I like Chris Dodd or Joe Biden for V.P. Although they don't bring big states with them.; 4:13 PM
John McFetridge said...: There's always a fine line between fighting for what you believe in and being, "a spoiled brat whenever he doesn't get his way." Especially if you come from a less than privelegded background.

You know the way ant-feminists call all women who speak up "strident?" It's the same thing when people talk about those from working-class backgrounds.

Someone said McCain would pick Condoleza Rice.; 4:22 PM
pattinase (abbott) said...: If he picks her, it's a mistake. Why tie himself even tighter to the most disastrous, unsuccessful administration in history. It has to be just because she's female and black. Yikes!; 4:59 PM
Todd Mason said...: Patti--
I'd have to disagree at least one of the two candidates, since I see Joe Biden as the most mealy-mouthed, spineless, logarrheic clown in the Senate, and that's saying something. His good reputation is a mystery to me. Recall his performance during Clarence Thomas's Supreme Court nomination hearings, for a sad example of how he collapses when it matters (lets leave aside his fluctuating support for the Nicaraguan contras and his support for an anti-flag-burning amendment to the Constitution, and such trivia, if telling trivia, as his ridiculous plagiarism of the Kinnock speech)(the clever description of Obama as "clean" might be seen, particularly in Obama's camp, as somewhat less trivial).

John--
If Clinton's tantrums of late hadn't been about he or his wife not getting their way, as a millionaire couple with him not long out of the halls of high office, and her still in one, and he hadn't been the most blatant "class traitor" to his humble orignins damned near in US history, I think your argument woul be more telling. Most of his other famous abuses came when he was in a position to abuse, as a governor, for example.

I suspect McCain is quite likely to suggest a woman governor. Though if Joe Lieberman joins the GOP, he might be a contender for the Veep nom...two losing campaigns in that position in a decade!; 6:41 PM
John McFetridge said...: "Most of his other famous abuses came when he was in a position to abuse, as a governor, for example."

That's pretty classic behaviour, though, isn't it? People build up resentment and then lash out at the weakest target.

One of the most read Canadian novels is Robertson Davies, "What's Bred in the Bone." And wasn't it the Jesuits who said, give me the boy until six and I'll give you the man? It's the rare person who changes and overcomes their beginnings - of course, I guess you want that rare person for president, don't you?; 8:47 PM
pattinase (abbott) said...: John-Love Robertson Davies. They did a dramatization of his books at Stratford a few years back. Boy, it was dark.; 10:49 PM
pattinase (abbott) said...: Todd: Dodd?; 10:58 PM
Todd Mason said...: Chris Dodd I know less about...it seemed to me that his, more than anyone else's among the Dems, run at the Pres Nom this time was a means of consolidating his power, to help build up a campaign warchest and get at least a preliminary national organization in place to help throw it behind whoever came out on top...but that doesn't seem to have worked out so well for him.

He sure looks better than the Other Senator from Conn, but I must admit I haven't followed his career as thoroughly as I've been aware of Biden's.

My sense is that he's rather to the right of me, and probably about right there with Obama. But I think that if one's going for resume, and a match for McCain's experience as a veteran (though not as a POW), Jim Webb is the logical choice.; 11:04 PM
Terrie Farley Moran said...: John,

I take it that in your comment re my comment on Bill Clinton--spoiled brat, that you think I commented with an elitist view. I am certainly a strident feminist, but my working class background would leave Bill Clinton in the dust.

A person's background or upbringing is never an excuse for poor behavior.

Terrie; 9:37 AM
John McFetridge said...: Oh, no, Terrie, I never meant to make it sound like an excuse for behaviour.

But we all bring up our own backgrounds to explain our own views and opinions.

I think the problem is, too often, some character traits come in "combination packages." That is, it's tough to find people willing to put themselves and their views out there who also don't have some other negative traits pushing them. You know, when exactly does ambition become greed? When does determination become pig-headedness and when does compromise become giving up?

People said Hillary had a "sense of entitlement" and I never understood that. What she had/has is a constituency of many people who want what she wants - proper health care, for example. That's not entitlement, it's representation.

But when people oppose something, they often look for emotional or personal reasons. For whatever reason, that can be more effective critisism. I know I'm guilty of that myself all the time.; 10:58 AM
Peter Rozovsky said...: Re Chelsea, I did a bit of math earlier in the campaign and, if my calculations were correst, Chelsea would have been old enough to run for president just as Hillary would have been finishing her second term. Do you think Bill and Hillary charted their reproductive cycles with that possibility in mind?
===================
Detectives Beyond Borders
"Because Murder Is More Fun Away From Home"
http://detectivesbeyondborders.blogspot.com/; 12:24 AM
pattinase (abbott) said...: Doesn't always work out for the offspring. Look at all the Kennedy's battering around without a seat of power.; 7:51 AM
Todd Mason said...: Local public radio chat show is mooting Hagel for Obama, Leiberman for McCain. Because what's more energetic than fusion? Even if it's about as likely as cold fusion.; 10:51 AM
pattinase (abbott) said...: I don't mean to sound cynical or politically incorrect, but is that all about taking the Jewish vote away from Obama? Plus putting CT in the Republican column.; 11:06 AM
Todd Mason said...: Nah, it's mostly about how close McCain and (Never met an Electic Boat contract, no matter how bloated or even opposed by the Pentagon, he didn't like) Leiberman actually are.

A quick skim over the easily avaialable literature about Dodd, btw, suggests that he might be as much in the pocket of the insurance/financial industry in Hartford as Leiberman is dependent on the warship industry in coastal Connecticut. Which would also make Dodd thus similar to that tool of the credit card/financial interests in Delaware, Joe Biden.; 11:42 AM
Terrie Farley Moran said...: Dodd's done.

He just showed up on the Friends of Angelo list from Countrywide--got preferential mortgage treatment and saved seventy grand. Not so bad except that Countrywide was one of the worst offenders in triggering the U.S. mortgage crisis.

John,

Sorry I misunderstood you. And I love your combination packages paragraph. Spoken like a true writer.

As to Hilary's "sense of entitlement" I am a lifelong New Yorker (New York City) and can tell you that the public "entitlement" began when we saw Mrs. Clinton invited to take a vacant NY Senate seat by some of our most well respected Members of Congress and Democratic party leaders. No matter that she never lived here or had no claim to representing New York other than her husband was President. We, the party faithful, were told--don't worry, she won't be here long.

Had she not rushed into a seat to which she was not "entitled," when a vacancy came up in her home state of Illinois a couple of years later, she could have taken that and Poof! No Barack Obama!

Funny how things go.

Terrie; 8:28 PM