Every so often I play a CD and think, great voice, lousy songs, and often it turns out to be the songs were written by the vocalist. Back in the day, well even before my day, most singers did not write their own material. Frank Sinatra never wrote a song. All those big band types sang material from song writers.
But suddenly in the sixties, it became mandatory to write your own material. You could cover a song her or there, but you better write your own music too. Dionne Warwick great singer, never wrote a song, Same with Elvis, Three Dog Night and on and on.
Do you have respect for singers that are only voices or does the complete artist need to do both? Why does the one have to go with the other? I feel sorriest for those who have the ability to write music but not sing it. I great violinist is not expected to write his own music but pop singers are. Why?
20 comments:
The Beloved Spouse and I have had this discussion at length. We heard Bob Dylan somewhere (movie soundtrack, maybe), and she went on about what a great song this was, and said I might think so, too, if I could understand what he was saying. That led to me wondering how Dylan got to be so popular and be such a lousy singer, and she said, well, yeah, he isn't such a great singer, but he wrote such wonderful songs.
I replied, "You know, they already have a profession for people who write beautiful songs but can't sing. It's called songwriter."
Some people can do both, and I applaud them. Unfortunately, the two skill sets are not interchangeable, nor are they often found in the same person. The author is rarely the best reader of his books, and classical musicians often say the composer is often not the best conductor of his own pieces. The skill sets juts don't match.
I heard Dylan once in person and understood not a word of it. Even the music seemed wrong. He is the polar opposite for me-as is Leonard Cohen now--they should let other people do their music.
For me I think there's a cutoff point for people who are just singers. Pre-autotune yes. Post-autotune not so much.
My father and I attended a Dylan concert last fall. I knew what he was singing because I already knew the songs.
I used to mind of a singer was not the songwriter but no longer care. I am annoyed when people with fine voices, the Secret Sisters being the most recent, are given crappy material. The Sisters recent album is almost all cover songs, songs you've already heard a million times. The best tune on the album is the first one, Tennessee Me, and written by them.
I love Dylan as a singer. Listen to such albums as Highway 61 Revisited or Blonde On Blonde. No one does these songs better. Its his later live performances where the mumbling set in.
Oh, absolutely. His early ones are completely different. Than his voice might be quirky but it's suited to the material and you can understand him. At some point, he lost respect for his audience.
Semi-familiar material can be best. It is very hard for me to appreciate a whole CD of new singer-penned songs. So much of it seems the same.
While I can respect a person with a good voice, I don't see them in the same light as those that perform their own songs.
Singing the music of others is not a tad above being a cover band.
Meatloaf became famous while doing only the singing. He did not write, produce, mix or have any hand in his own albums.
Janet Jackson's way was kind of cool: She spent a lot of time with Jam and Lewis and talked about a lot of things. The songs they wrote were actually inspired by who she is and how she felt about different things.
I respect Buddy Holly more than Elvis. Carole King more than Aretha Franklin. Reason? They wrote and performed their own stuff.
A great violinist is certainly respect for the skills they have, but composers generally are held in higher regard.
Regarding Dylan: The sister of a pal has seen dozens of shows and thinks Bob does it on purpose. She saw him in Milwaukee and could not understand a word. Few days later, he was in Minneapolis and sounded like he does on albums: Not a great voice, but very clear.
That is so weird about Dylan. I wonder if drugs play a part in it.
I don't know if I come of sounding mean spirited or not, but to me, competent to good singers are a dime a dozen. Good songs are a LOT harder to find. I may listen to a good singer on the radio who is just singing other people's stuff, but I'm very unlikely to buy that kind of music. I kind of do believe that a musical artist should do a little of both.
As always Charles got into my thoughts and spit out a comment first. To which I say, I agree.
I don't think it was so much drugs as age and hard use that has caused that "death rattle" sound in Dylan's voice. He's been on the never-ending tour for a decade and his voice shows it.
Leonard Cohen's voice never really changed; it was always rather gravelly, flat, and monochromatic. That being said, he (like Dylan) has written some of the best songs of the last 50 (yikes!) years and so we forgive the less-than-stellar vocal chords.
A few years ago, David Gates (singer/songwriter of the group Bread, famous in the 1970s) said, "If I'd known I'd still be singing my songs 30 years after I wrote them, I'd have written them in a different key."
Doesn't matter much, an interpretation can be as important as an original and it has always been this way. Depends on the artist. I do love Dylan, though -- including his recent stuff (maybe about 30% of it -- great workout vibe) and think his gruff persona is hilarious on stage. Hey, he inspired Jimi Hendrix to sing, too.
No I don't lose respect for someone who "only" sings rather than writes, though I might have added respect for a songwriter (especially if they've written a lot of stuff I like).
Since everyone is talking about Dylan: we saw him with Paul Simon in 1999 (and if you want to see odd, picture them singing each other's songs) and he was mostly just weird. I don't demand singers do a song exactly the way it was done on the record, but people like Dylan (and Van Morrison) who seem to go out of their way to ONLY do it differently now just annoy me. I'd rather not see them and just listen to the records the way I like them.
No, Meat Loaf doesn't write his songs but with a voice like his and a stage presence I'm not going to penalize him (and myself) by refusing to see him perform live (which I have, six times).
Singer/songwriters we do go to see:
Bonnie Raitt (when she's around), James Taylor, Carole King (better writer than singer IMHO), Jimmy Buffett, Willie Nelson (though he sings everything, from any era).
My question is, do you prefer singers (like Dylan and Paul Simon) who just come out and sing and barely acknowledge the audience at all or those who tell stories (Taylor, Buffett) and interact with the crowd. The most extreme of the second sort I've seen in recent years was Stevie Wonder, who was great but talked as much as he sang, to the point where it got annoying.
In general, I like at least a little interaction (Levon Helm, John Fogerty). Otherwise it seems cold.
Jeff M.
We saw Norah Jones before anyone knew her name. She performed with her piano pitched away from the audience and could barely speak.
I prefer a bit too.
A good balance all around might be Donald Fagen of Steely Dan. They write their own stuff, he talks a little but not a huge amount.
Carlos Santana often goes into some mystical thing about cosmic things but I generally ignore them.
Jeff M.
So out of it. Have never seen either.
Not much that I like better than various singers doing their personal interpretations of the Great American Songbook. Much more enjoyable than Dylan mumbling through one of his songs.
Johnny Mercer was both a singer and one of the finest American Songbook composers.
The Clint Eastwood-produced documentary THE DREAM'S ON ME is an excellent look at Mercer.
It's available on DVD.
Singing and songwriting are very different talents. Some are great at both, but most are not. It doesn't matter that Dionne doesn't write, or that Burt Bacharach is not really a singer; they are geniuses at what they do.
Dionne Warwick, although not known for her songwriting, has written several songs. Two Ships Passing in the Night was the flip side of her That's What Friends Are For single. She also wrote or co-wrote several tunes for her 1994 album Watercolors of Brazil.
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