Birthers and Truthers Compared (From the Monkey Cage)
Brendan Nyhan compares the prevalence of conspiracy theories about Obama’s birthplace and 9/11. Here is the money graph, with responses broken down by party:
He concludes:
…both party’s bases are disturbingly receptive to wild conspiracy theories.
IS THERE ANY CONSPIRACY YOU BELIEVE IN?
22 comments:
yet another reason that I am in Independent.
You have offered a fine example of what happens when "facts" become politicized. Of course, this is nothing new; world history is filled with examples of distorted opinions clung to by people who should know better but become misled by political biases. In the most recent instances, you have something relatively new: the media of the post-post-modern age (i.e., Internet and cable "news" programs). We are bombarded by "information" and find it difficult to separate the wheat from the chaff. Some of us like to think that everything was much different 50 or so years ago when we people relied upon one local newspaper, two or three networks (with old reliable Walter Cronkite leading the way), and neighborhood (and workplace) chatter. Of course, before we become too nostalgic about those good old days, we need to remember the not so glorious McCarthy era, and that sobering moment in history should remind us that current attitudes are not much different (and not much more distorted) than older attitudes. It is all more visible now, and it spreads like an uncontrollable virus, but none of it is necessarily much more foolish. Actually, it is all rather foolish isn't it!
When I quote these figures at a gathering a person admitted to some skepticism about the moon landing. And Roswell always comes up.
And yes, too much media leads both these charges.
The moon landing is still doubted? I would have thought the 9/11 conspiracy folks would have relegated the moon landing to "ancient history" and seized upon the WTC as their only crusade. And as for Roswell NM, have you ever wondered why interstellar travelers are so incompetent as to shows themselves in such isolated locations? I prefer Will Smith's encounters with the scoundrels rather than the Project Blue Book and Roswell tales. (And frankly, I'm still bothered by that damned Bermuda Triangle crap!)
Can I be independent of the independents though? That number on Obama is just crazy. There's no way around it.
The real question might be what percentage of people are hopelessly uninformed, easily manipulated or a tad touched. I'd say about 15% fall into the last category.
I can't say I believe in even one. Though, I would have liked to believe in the Mystery Airships of 1896.
Charles . . . is the number on 9/11 not equally crazy? I have colleagues (nameless here) who are convinced that the 9/11 events were "inside jobs." Whenever they make their assertions, I am dumbfounded. Why do you suppose political bias so aggressively feeds these bizarre notions (9/11 and Obama included) in the minds of ostensibly bright people?
Patti: This is a conversation that could take DAYS. I try not to use the "C" word as that just ridicules debate before the intelligent engines even have a chance to turn over...I like to use the "Q" and the "F" words--questions and facts. Rumors and speculation are fine, but line up the oddball facts and unanswered questions and you have a looooong discussion on your hands. David? What are these airships you speak of? Intrigued. Email me.
Yes, David, tell us. That one sounds more fun.
I wouldn't say I'm a conspiracy theorist, but I will say I'm still not satisfied with the government's answers on what happened to TWA 800.
If the government is not forthcoming about the facts concerning an event that they were not responsible for is that a conspiracy or something else. Are they just being judicious if such facts lead to public unrest.
What constitutes a conspiracy? Do the players have to be active participants in the initiating event?
All I have to say is that if Obama wasn't a citizen I am sure that Hillary would have used it against him.
Or McCain.
I was amazed at a recent poll of fellow North Carolinians. 46% of Democrats and 73% of Republicans believed Obama was either not native born or weren't sure.
But even more telling was another question asked at the same time. Do you believe Hawaii is part of the United States? Not a lot, but a registerable percentage said no or weren't sure.
Simply unbelievable!
I saw that on your blog, Randy. That's what sent me to this graph.
A conspiracy is by definition an agreement to perform together an illegal, wrongful, or subversive act. I would personally include in that definition an agreement to perform an unethical act. But that's just me.
Because I think the govt has not answered ?s about TWA 800 to my satisfaction doesn't mean I think they were engaged in anything illegal or in any way conspired to bring that aircraft down. I just think the govt is always a little too ready to throw the old 'national security' blanket over information that might cause them some embarrassment.
On the other hand, you asked if the govt is "just being judicious if such facts lead to public unrest." Seeing what's been happening at health care reform town meetings, I don't think politicians give a rat's backside about public unrest; they'll even create it if they can find a way to spin it to their benefit.
I tend to err in the direction of dismissing all radical and ridiculous sounding allegations out of hand, although I suppose one out of every few hundred crazy sounding things may turn out to be true.
The sad and discouraging thing about what's happening now is that we are so far away from a rational discussion about healthcare reform that I'm beginning to despair.
In the meantime, as radicals rant and scream about imaginary government plots, the private interests that profit from the skyrocketing costs of health care are quietly winning.
Once again, the Democrats allow themselves to be bullied by a shrinking minority and remain on the defensive with the crazies. They continue to be unable to articulate rational, factual points that spell out the need for reform.
The level of discourse our country has sunk to is embarrassing. What must we look like to the people watching?
Corey- I think that happens a lot. There is something embarrassing or unsolvable about an act, so it is suppressed.
Lisa-I am so with you. He should have pushed something through before they got organized. This is 1992 all over again. He didn't realize that public discourse sinks ships.
I believe that drug companies and the entire insurance industry are involved in a conspiracy to maintain the status quo to protect their huge profits and executive pay based on the misery f people.
The Clinton Admin was 115% pro-business, so their healtcare proposals, I remain convinced, were meant to fail. Obama's notion seems to be that if he also dips to the center at best, he can get matters through, which of course doesn't work because the GOP can always find useful idiots to blather nonsense, and the supposedly objective sorts are always willing to say, Ah, the left and the right are equally culpbable, when the left is rarely heard from. (If one thinks Barack Obama leftist, I suppoe even todays Social Democrats arouund the world must seem like wild-eyed loonies, as opposed to the actual wild-eyed loonies we have demanding Their Country Back we have here...when did they Have Their Country, I wonder.) Even with that graph, I have to wonder what sort of conspiracy the various folks were assenting existed...clearly, the hijackers were a conspiracy. I'm not sure we can be sure the pollsters managed to actually convey that they meant, if they did, that the Bush Admin was In On This. Or Israel, or the other actors of the paranoid fringe's scenarios.
Yes, there was a discrepancy between the Bush Adm being in on it or allowing something they had received warnings of to occur to further their ambitions.
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