tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33110302.post1287714818373679742..comments2024-03-28T16:21:30.329-04:00Comments on Patricia Abbott (pattinase): Tomorrow's Electionpattinase (abbott)http://www.blogger.com/profile/02916037185235335846noreply@blogger.comBlogger44125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33110302.post-60043182886860571752010-11-03T15:35:31.889-04:002010-11-03T15:35:31.889-04:00Seems there's an even smaller Statehood-aspiri...Seems there's an even smaller Statehood-aspiring part in PR, the New Progressive Party aka Partido Nuevo Progresista, or PNP...Todd Masonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01815516018079824802noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33110302.post-27417792691340390792010-11-03T15:09:44.244-04:002010-11-03T15:09:44.244-04:00The weirdest thing, Ron, is that almost everyone r...The weirdest thing, Ron, is that almost everyone realizes we're all in this together...just that they want different distributions of what's together to all of us...<br /><br />John...there are PR statehood folks, too. I don't believe they have a distinct party, though (a correspondent to the DC Statehood/Green Statehood Party)...and, of course, NY State is the King of at least somewhat influential local parties, beginning with the Liberal and Conservative parties...Todd Masonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01815516018079824802noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33110302.post-16492341464515513792010-11-03T14:59:21.546-04:002010-11-03T14:59:21.546-04:00Thanks for clearing that up Todd. I didn't kno...Thanks for clearing that up Todd. I didn't know about the Alaskans and I thought the movement in Puerto Rico was to become a state, not to pull out completely.<br /><br />Yeah, Charlie, the New York State Buffalo Bills are finally going to win a game this year and it'll be in Canada - I hope they count it in the standings ;)John McFetridgehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09442198820998606682noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33110302.post-15819869558193624312010-11-03T14:44:56.761-04:002010-11-03T14:44:56.761-04:00Thanks for your candor, Patti, and opening up a co...Thanks for your candor, Patti, and opening up a contentious subject. It's too easy to over-simplify, but the country seems divided between those who believe we're all in this together and those who believe it's everyone for himself. The vote reflects that national schizophrenia.Ron Scheerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15357501069513854664noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33110302.post-6038037417020758792010-11-03T14:07:52.863-04:002010-11-03T14:07:52.863-04:00And Robert La Follette's Progressive Party, pa...And Robert La Follette's Progressive Party, particularly in the years in which it fused with the Socialists, was probably the great left hope in the last century nationally in the US. The Popular Front Progressive revival running Wallace wasn't nearly as impressive...nor as popular nor influential.Todd Masonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01815516018079824802noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33110302.post-21555822801346398722010-11-03T14:03:37.409-04:002010-11-03T14:03:37.409-04:00Brainslip...Indenpendentista is the I in PIP...Brainslip...Indenpendentista is the I in PIP...Todd Masonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01815516018079824802noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33110302.post-76428750307034949692010-11-03T14:01:23.280-04:002010-11-03T14:01:23.280-04:00And John is incorrect...we have at least two well-...And John is incorrect...we have at least two well-established regionalist parties, the Alaska Independence Party (which I suspected would be Lisa Murkowski's refuge after her loss in the primaries...progressive former Republican Walter Hickel won the governor's office as their candidate some years back) and the Puerto Rican Independence Party/Partido Independencia Puertoriqueño or PIP. Such other regional parties as DC Statehood Party, now the Green Statehood Party, have had some representation or influence from time to time.Todd Masonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01815516018079824802noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33110302.post-35439046480267968142010-11-03T13:54:40.842-04:002010-11-03T13:54:40.842-04:00FWIW, the Green parties in the world tend not to b...FWIW, the Green parties in the world tend not to be solely environmental parties, but instead radically democratic parties of the left, with at least a fairly strong libertarian streak. Which is why I'm comfortable calling myself a Green in most circumstances.Todd Masonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01815516018079824802noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33110302.post-64521487577837538592010-11-03T12:18:33.176-04:002010-11-03T12:18:33.176-04:00I guess I'm with John & Todd on this.
h...I guess I'm with John & Todd on this. <br /> <br />http://temporaryknucksline.blogspot.com/2010/11/elections-whats-it-all-mean.html<br /><br />Back to reality ... my beloved new york state bills in Toronto--John, luck you!Charlieoperahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08876755029099726686noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33110302.post-80658068321507920522010-11-03T11:19:43.292-04:002010-11-03T11:19:43.292-04:00That, John, is because they don't want less go...That, John, is because they don't want less government...they want the government to do what they think they want it to do, and nothing else.<br /><br />Patti, there is NO excuse for attempting to blame Nader voters or Nader for the the failure of Democrats to actually press their victory. You might as well blame Nader for Obama's few accomplishments that weren't basically compromises with uncompromising Republicans. The Democrats will never be reliably re-elected as long as they consistently sell out the majority of Americans in favor of less crazily echoing the Republicans. The health-care initiative echoes both the 1993 GOP Senate package and the Romney Admin program in Massachusetts...rather than being the national health service we need. The money given to the banks with almost no strings and certainly no new regulations to speak of kept them solvent, for the most part, without reforming them (surprise!). The utterly inept handling of the Gulf of Mexico oil spill, an attempt to allow BP and co. to keep the well as an active moneymaker if at all possible and damn the cost, remains more than a literal blot on whatever legacy he'll have.<br /><br />This is not remotely Nader's fault. It might not even be the fault of Sandra Day O'Connor, and the lack of resolution on the part of the Gore campaingn, the two most important factors in the election fracas that led to the installation of George W. Bush. <br /><br />We have two election machines in the form of political parties, and they are jealous machines. They do what they can to keep the other parties and independents from flourishing.Todd Masonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01815516018079824802noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33110302.post-7987490848758024452010-11-03T11:06:25.628-04:002010-11-03T11:06:25.628-04:00If only Canada would let me in, I would be there i...If only Canada would let me in, I would be there in a minute.pattinase (abbott)https://www.blogger.com/profile/02916037185235335846noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33110302.post-81004832853393273192010-11-03T10:28:35.310-04:002010-11-03T10:28:35.310-04:00Well Patti, America is very confusing. It seems li...Well Patti, America is very confusing. It seems like the same people who say the want less government in peoples' lives also voted against legalizing things like marijuana and gay marriage - which means more government control over peoples' lives.John McFetridgehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09442198820998606682noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33110302.post-13764628184884407182010-11-03T09:13:16.064-04:002010-11-03T09:13:16.064-04:00From across the border we tremble in fear!From across the border we tremble in fear!Jenn Jilkshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05259681360456905055noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33110302.post-23996539112060205032010-11-02T17:40:46.306-04:002010-11-02T17:40:46.306-04:00So far the impact of third parties has been to hel...So far the impact of third parties has been to help Republicans get elected. I'd like to see the tea party hurt Republicans but I do think the fix is in.pattinase (abbott)https://www.blogger.com/profile/02916037185235335846noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33110302.post-64724870042501550892010-11-02T17:04:47.796-04:002010-11-02T17:04:47.796-04:00Patti, specialized parties really only work if you...Patti, specialized parties really only work if you have rep by pop and not by district. European countries can have a few Green party members in parliament because they get 5-10% of the total vote. Canada and the UK can't really elect parties like that because the 5-10% is spread out over all the districts.<br /><br />I guess it's the same for the US with all those congressional districts. Still, I'm surprised so few of those districts elect independents with more local concerns.<br /><br />So far you don't have a regional sepratist party like our Bloc Quebecois or the Scottish National party.<br /><br />Be interesting to see which party of the US tries that first.John McFetridgehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09442198820998606682noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33110302.post-82357553424352860342010-11-02T16:47:55.763-04:002010-11-02T16:47:55.763-04:00If there were a viable third party, it would be to...If there were a viable third party, it would be to the right of the Repubs, I fear. I think we need at least five parties--but none of them can run just on environmental issues. Because there are just two parties, Obama did much of what he did.pattinase (abbott)https://www.blogger.com/profile/02916037185235335846noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33110302.post-9351857685740368882010-11-02T16:44:01.829-04:002010-11-02T16:44:01.829-04:00Charlie that article is interesting. It seems this...Charlie that article is interesting. It seems this really goes beyond politics and the title of the book in the article maybe sums it up best, "Winner Take All." <br /><br />There doesn't seem to be much middle ground in America these days. Actually, there doesn't seem to be the <i>idea</i> of middle ground. In reality there is plenty of middle ground, but that certainly doesn't benefit those at the very top.<br /><br />A good book aout the 1920's is, <i>The Consolidation of Capitalism</i> and that's been the direction since. I think people get taken in too much by the post-war years when the working class was full of confidence after winning the war and made some gains, but the beat-down (as the kids say) started right away.<br /><br />Look at how fast pop culture went from <i>The Best Years of Our Lives</i> to <i>Leave it Beaver</i>.John McFetridgehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09442198820998606682noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33110302.post-91337513383667680572010-11-02T16:19:00.762-04:002010-11-02T16:19:00.762-04:00About that Nader vote ... it was Democrats who vot...About that Nader vote ... it was Democrats who voted along with Bush for both wars (including our Sec. of State) ... we don't really know what Obama would've done because he seemed determined never to make a decision while in the Illinois Senate (131 present votes).<br /><br />I know it's tempting to stay with the Dems vs. the Reps (I do understand) but ... so long as we keep doing it, we get what we vote for. He (obama) had huge political capital and a veto proof majority and struck out (looking--because he did nothing to push national health insurance). <br /><br />Let's not get started on the war (that is no longer covered) and his upping the ante there. <br /><br />So long as we've determined a third party can't win, it won't ... I guess.Charlieoperahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08876755029099726686noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33110302.post-7122247031976066542010-11-02T16:00:10.428-04:002010-11-02T16:00:10.428-04:00The problem is that we, as John says, just have th...The problem is that we, as John says, just have the two parties to choose from. I would say any hope for working folks does not lie with voting Republican. And not voting at all comes to close to that right now. <br />What was the last thing they did for anyone who made less than half a million a year. Now the Dems are not perfect by any means, but a vote for them in preferable to me. If people hadn't voted for Ralph Nader in 2000 the world might be different today.pattinase (abbott)https://www.blogger.com/profile/02916037185235335846noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33110302.post-23842347610277280262010-11-02T15:52:07.131-04:002010-11-02T15:52:07.131-04:00One of my writing heroes (Bob Herbert) sums it up ...One of my writing heroes (Bob Herbert) sums it up nicely today in his column:<br /><br />http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/02/opinion/02herbert.html?_r=1&ref=opinionCharlieoperahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08876755029099726686noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33110302.post-70239094505905160412010-11-02T15:43:33.113-04:002010-11-02T15:43:33.113-04:00Here in Canada we often feel caught between Americ...Here in Canada we often feel caught between American and European influence. One of the biggest differences between the two is that the US has only two parties. I can't think of any other democracy with only two parties. That makes any kind of compromise very difficult and it always leaves a lot of people feeling as if they have no voice in the government.<br /><br />And Charlie is right, I think, a lot of what we're dealing with now has to do with the loss of the working class - it's the foundation industrial societies are built on (and why Europeans fight to keep it) and frankly, there's no such thing as "post-industrial," that's just newspeak for a return to feudalism.<br /><br />Charlie, it would all be different if Vice President Henry Wallace hadn't been turfed out of the Democrats for daring to talk about the, "Century of the Common Man," emerging after World War Two. Ayn Rand set him straight at the HUAC trials that followed, pointing out that Americans don't like anything <i>common</i> ;)<br /><br />Or maybe if his Progressive Party had gained any traction, but a system with no place for a third party (let alone fourth or fifth or sixth) it's very tough.<br /><br />Good luck.John McFetridgehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09442198820998606682noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33110302.post-60219529065882485162010-11-02T14:48:10.434-04:002010-11-02T14:48:10.434-04:00We got a mailer saying the same thing! Clearly it ...We got a mailer saying the same thing! Clearly it was a cut and paste job. <br />Hey, Jackie! How are you? Did you have fun in Las Vegas? <br />And we had the same dilemma. Our Dem State Rep. began calling himself a moderate Republican rather than a Dem. a few months back. Only dilemma is if he doesn't get elected, he's a professor in our Department and he will be angrier than ever.pattinase (abbott)https://www.blogger.com/profile/02916037185235335846noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33110302.post-42201726644403315612010-11-02T14:30:52.628-04:002010-11-02T14:30:52.628-04:00My favorite local mailer stated that our Congressm...My favorite local mailer stated that our Congressman (personally, I presume) was responsible for raising property taxes 17%.<br /><br />Can anyone explain how local property taxes are the purview of Congress?<br /><br />Jeff M.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33110302.post-12271290826481907612010-11-02T14:28:11.660-04:002010-11-02T14:28:11.660-04:00Totally agree with you. The only problem Jeff and...Totally agree with you. The only problem Jeff and I faced when voting today was that our congressman (Michael McMahon) is a Democrat in name only (DINO). It was a choice between him, a heartless ignorant fool, or an inexperienced, heartless ignorant fool Republican. We happen to live in the only Brooklyn district in NYC that includes the very Republican Staten Island. <br /><br />JackieAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33110302.post-75353661488000257802010-11-02T13:49:06.243-04:002010-11-02T13:49:06.243-04:00That's okay, Charlie. I know where you're ...That's okay, Charlie. I know where you're coming from.pattinase (abbott)https://www.blogger.com/profile/02916037185235335846noreply@blogger.com